Not only was this weekend for fun, it was also for testing new ammo.
I was trying to decide on a defensive round for my CZ83. It is chambered for the 380ACP round and, luckily, there are plenty of choices to choose from. I had narrowed it down to three. The Federal 95gr Hydra-Shock, the Winchester 95gr Silvertip and the Remington 102gr Bonded Golden Saber.
I have used both the Silvertip and the Hydra-Shock as defensive rounds before for both 45ACP and 38 Spl. I liked both of them, but had decided about two years ago to drop the Silvertip from my first line of defense. I replaced it with the Winchester 230gr SXT Black Talon (because bank robbers wear body armor too) and have had nothing but good results since then.
Unfortunately, the Black Talon has been banned from new production, and therefore, is expensive and a little hard to come by. That was ok. My local shop had just refreshed their stock of the Remingtons, and after looking at them, I decided that they would do nicely for the test.
All of the contestants performed very well. No feeding problems from any of them and they each did impressive damage to both the front and the back of the pumpkins. But in the end, there could be only one.
My pick: The Golden Saber
Why, you may ask?
First of all, I'm a sucker for a heavy projectile. I carry 230gr in my 1911 just in case I need to punch through something like a car door. 'Why would you need to shoot through a car door', you may again ask? Hey nosey, knock it off with the questions.
Secondly is the round's leading edge. The shape is the most 'ball-like' of the bunch, leading to more reliability in feeding.
And third, at $10.99 per box of 25, it is one of the least expensive. Which means I can include 200rnds on my list of purchases on National Ammo Day, November 19th.
Posted by AnalogKid at November 10, 2003 12:25 AM | TrackBackAn excellent round. One of our local PDs uses it (can't remember which one: Mesquite?).
Go to my site to see how I spent MY weekend (hint: no pumpkins were harmed).
Posted by: Kim du Toit on November 10, 2003 02:13 AMWhy did you drop the Silvertips? And what kind of recoil do you get out of those .45 185gr. +P's? I am looking for a good self-defense round for my H&K; USP in .45.
Posted by: Eric Sivula on November 10, 2003 06:20 PMSorry Eric, that was the only graphic Remington had for the Sabers so I used it. I have never carried +P ammo for defense. I don't like the pressures they create.
I dropped the Silvertips because I preferred the damage done by the Fed H/S and I wanted to introduce the Black Talons to the lineup. I had to drop something.
The recoil from the 102gr Sabers is barely noticable from the other two 95gr rounds in 380.
In my 1911, I carry 8+1 Black Talons in the first mag, in my two backup mags I stagger BT's & H/S's. All 230gr.
When I run out of BT's I will probably switch to the Sabers in the lead mag and keep staggering the other two.
Posted by: analog kid on November 10, 2003 06:57 PMSo, you use the standard pressure Golden Sabers? Ok, I was looking at Win. Silvertips, Fed. Hydra-shoks and CCI/Speer Gold Dots, but I will look into the Golden Sabers. Have you ever looked at RBCD(link is not cooperating - www.rbcd.net) ammo? I don't know how well it would feed in a 1911, but terminal ballistic info on their site is fairly impressive. Might look into for the .380.
Posted by: Eric Sivula on November 10, 2003 07:42 PMMy G*d Eric.
Sorry for the long response time but I had to wait until I left work to visit their site.
I have no reason to doubt their numbers, and after viewing them I can tell you that none of their ammo will ever be shot through my gun. I like it too much.
I'm perfectly happy to sick with my 400ft lbs and 900fps. Thank you very much.
When you load something like that into a gun, you must remember that every foot pound of energy that is delivered to the bad guy is also felt by you and your firearm. Recovery for a second shot must just be a bitch with that stuff.
If you do decide to try some of this stuff out, try and find a heavier recoil spring. It'll save wear and tear on your HK. I don't know what the stock weight of your spring is, but the stock 1911 is 16 lbs. They make 18's for them and I've even seen 20's. Remember to change it back out when you are shooting regular ammo or it won't cycle well.
Good luck, man.
Posted by: analog kid on November 11, 2003 03:11 AMRecoil (felt and quantitative/measurable) is largely a function of bullet weight. A 200 gr. .45 with velocity of only 900fps would have far greater felt and quantitative/measurable recoil than a 75 grain load travelling in excess of 2000fps. Please know that downrange energy is absolutely not directly related to felt recoil. Additionally, these RBCD rounds are 'low pressure'; they'll be easier on a gun (and your forearm) than the afforementioned 200 gr. load. Have a nice day and don't bother with the recoil spring; if anything, such a light bullet would require a LIGHTER spring. More importantly, conduct this type of research via reliable (non-message board) sources.
Posted by: RegLeCrisp on December 20, 2003 12:34 PM